The GRIT Factor by Insurance Group of America

The Grit Behind Success with Randy Schwantz

• Insurance Group of America

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The secret to building a thriving sales organization lies at the intersection of talent, methodology, and leadership - something Randy Schwantz has mastered over 33 years of working exclusively with insurance agencies. 

As the creator of "The Wedge" and founder of Bignition, Schwantz reveals why insurance offers extraordinary opportunity through "unlimited product and unlimited prospects." His work with Insurance Group of America (IGA) demonstrates how the right approach can drive exponential growth - from $300,000 to nearly $10 million in revenue within a decade.

The heart of sales success, Schwantz explains, begins with finding people who genuinely fit the model. His Grit Personality Inventory assesses crucial traits like drive, assertiveness, and attention to detail. These aren't just personality quirks but predictors of who will persist through the inevitable challenges of prospecting and relationship-building. "When that drive is missing," he notes, "you don't really have a producer."

Beyond individual talent, culture creates the multiplier effect. Performance-driven environments with clear methodologies can elevate a salesperson's results "3x, 4x compared to what they would have done in a neutral sort of culture." This isn't micromanagement but rather providing a proven path to success through well-defined objectives, consistent coaching, and accountability.

Perhaps most revolutionary is Schwantz's advocacy for evidence-based hiring that transcends traditional interviews. By incorporating practical exercises like writing summaries of sales methodologies, organizations can evaluate commitment, communication skills, and ability to synthesize information - all crucial indicators of future performance.

For leaders looking to transform their sales organizations, Schwantz offers this powerful insight: "Potential has to be developed in almost every case." The best leaders identify what motivates each team member, create customized development paths, and maintain the energy to keep everyone focused on meaningful outcomes.

Ready to discover if you have the grit factor? Listen now to learn how top insurance producers reach seven-figure incomes by following proven paths with the right organizational support.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Grit Factor podcast. I'm Drew Powell, and here we explore what it takes to succeed through the lens of guts. Resilience, integrity and tenacity these are the values that drive high-performing leaders and shape the culture at the Insurance Group of America. Are the values that drive high-performing leaders and shape the culture at the Insurance Group of America. Each episode will sit down with industry trailblazers, iga team members and inspiring professionals who have embraced grit to overcome challenges, seize opportunities and create meaningful impact. Whether you're considering joining IGA or simply looking for the tools to take your career to the next level, you're in the right place. So buckle up. It's time to discover the Grit Factor. Well, randy, thanks for being on the Grit Factor podcast. Man.

Speaker 2:

My pleasure, my pleasure. I've known Jamie a long time and it's good to be a part of his thing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, he speaks very, very highly of you, my friend, and so we've had a couple interactions and so I've been anxious to talk with you and learn from you and hear a little bit more. And let's just start right at the beginning. How did you get into this work? Tell us a little bit about the wedge and just kind of the work you're doing.

Speaker 2:

Wow, you know that's an old story now. I mean, I started this 33 years ago, wow yeah, I'd been a sales Wow clients. And then my wife got pregnant and I needed to make more money. So I kind of broke off and I go this is my deal, and one of my first five clients was an insurance agency.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

And that took me to launch after working with him about two or three months. And he said I got some advice for you. And I said what's that? And he said you ought to focus on insurance only I go. Why is that? He said three reasons. He said number one I like your stuff. I think other people would too. We don't get a lot of good training. He said. Number two you're not going to find any internal competition. Nobody wants to do this job. He said. Number three they make a lot of money. They can afford to pay you well.

Speaker 2:

And then he told me about a guy on the West Coast who did a lot of stuff in the insurance industry. I called that guy up, introduced myself. He said write an article. If I like it I'll publish it. So I wrote an article called the Buck Stops here the Art and Science of Doing Deals. I wrote that article, he published it and then I got a couple of new clients and then all of a sudden insurance became my niche and then out of that the wedge evolved and life goes on.

Speaker 1:

Amazing. So I mean we could do a whole episode of just the power of finding your niche and, you know, finding the people that you could serve well, and all that kind of stuff. I love that you just kind of went all in in this and that's been 33 years that you've been doing that with insurance companies. Yeah, that's right. Three decades, man. I'm sure you've learned a lot.

Speaker 2:

You learn a lot. You learn a lot, you make a lot of mistakes. I mean, out of that has come six books and a technology platform all designed. In fact it's called bignition. That's really just this integrated platform to help insurance agencies go grow, and it's, it's one of the things that that jamie jamie uses whole platform because, it makes it easier to go drive growth.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. Would you be willing to just unpack a little bit more about just that, because I want to get into some sales culture stuff, I want to get into how you met Jamie and all that, but just help me understand a little bit more of that model and that system that you're working there.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so the way I see it in fact, over here on this side, over here, it's all seven steps to seven figures. That's really a roadmap or a model to get producers from where they are to million dollar books, and it breaks it down to seven steps. And I got also a model on the other side, what I call five steps to extraordinary growth for sales leaders. So it's the training and the roadmap for them. You put those two things together and you put the technology in the middle. That glues it all up.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And that's called big nation, and so it's really hard for a lot of agency leaders to what am I saying? Install or implement a sales culture, because so many diverse ways of thinking and you got different types of sales people and they're running random sales meetings or random goal setting. And maybe they're trying to do some sort of CRM platform, but it's off the shelf and it doesn't really fit. So it's like trying to put these two things together rather than put these two things together. That's kind of what BigNission does, amazing.

Speaker 1:

I love it. I love it. Well, talk a little bit about how did you first meet Jamie. Give me your first impression. Talk about IGA and the leadership. Like what stood out to you with those guys. It's such a great company.

Speaker 2:

Well, yeah, I met Jamie. You know, jamie was uh, worked for one of my bigger clients at the time.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

And, uh, I got to know him. You know he. He came through the wedge and was just another one of about 60, 70, 80 producers that I trained at that firm and, frankly, I didn't get to know him very well. He left there after they got gobbled up by a private equity firm, started his own thing and called me immediately and said I need a sales platform, Can we implement this deal? And we did that and that was about 10 years ago and that dude has grown this firm from 300,000 in revenue to just under 10 million in about 10 years, which absolutely just thumps and trumps, really, 99% of other agencies out there. He would be in the top 1% of growth, I just promise you, and the majority of that's organic through producers and coaching and development producers. It's a unique story.

Speaker 1:

It's incredible, yeah, for people that are listening or watching this. I'm curious how you would describe the culture of IGA from your seat and your perspective, because you're you know you're a trusted partner and have been part of helping propel that growth, and you know a lot of people that watch or listen to this are, you know, potential salespeople that want to come in and be a part of this culture, and so you know what is your quasi unbiased take on the culture of IGA, because you see a bunch You're working with a bunch of people.

Speaker 1:

How is IGA different?

Speaker 2:

Well, I mean it starts with Jamie. Jamie is a can-do, get-it-done. If you get my idea and it makes sense, he just goes and does it. Yeah, there's no real politics. He's really transparent and, like a lot of leaders, he's got a big ego and he's got a lot of pride, but he's both willing and able to kind of set that aside and keep digging in figuring out. Okay what's a better way to do this. Yeah of set that aside and keep digging and figuring out okay, what's a better way to do this?

Speaker 1:

yeah, and I think the ego and pride is what keeps driving them, and then the ability to set back is what enables them to go do things better and, as a result, um, they're doing incredibly well and he's attracting some great producers and those producers are doing well you know, when you said ego and pride, you know one thing that he he told me at one point, and a lot of reason why we do this podcast is he says you know he's. If you know jamie, if anyone knows him, he's very honest, like you don't ever have to wonder where you're, where you're staying, where you're at, and I appreciate that about him. But he said I was talking about this podcast and I was. I was kind of telling man, I think you've got a lot to offer, you got a lot to say, you got a lot of different things.

Speaker 1:

And he pushed back on that pretty immediately and he's like man, I got a lot of ego and pride, but my ego and pride is to build a great company so that people can, you know, make a lot of money and be a part of a great culture. And he's very clear to say my ego and pride is not about building the Jamie Noe brand, it's about having an incredible company and incredible culture so people can reach their dreams. And I mean, I've hung on to that, even for me personally, of like saying, if I'm going to have ego and pride about something, let it be about how I can serve and help other people, and I love that about them.

Speaker 2:

Yep, you named it, that's Sam Yep.

Speaker 1:

Well, let's talk a little bit just about, since this is your world. Let's talk about just sales. You know this idea of building a sales team. There's tons of different sales teams out there, but, in your experience, what separates a good sales organization from, say, like, the forgettable ones?

Speaker 2:

Well, I mean, I mean it starts off with talent and uh, I mean you look at the NBA. The NBA is not loaded with guys who are 5'8" Right. They're loaded with guys that are 6'6" up to 7'2". They're fast, they're quick, they can jump, they've got the skills to shoot. I mean they fit the model. So the first thing to build in a great sales culture is finding people that fit the model, hence what you guys are calling the grit factor.

Speaker 2:

I wrote a book called Gr and it's interesting. I named the book Grit because I just like with the wedge, I like a single word that I have a chance to kind of own, if you will, relationship something. But what motivated that was the lady who wrote the book, grit. Angela come to me in a little while, I just had a tip of my tongue. But Grit, when she's talking about it, she did a lot of research. I think she's Harvard or Stanford or something like that, looked at a lot of things in the academies Naval Academy, army Academy, blah, blah, blah. And really the people who made it were the people who had a lot of perseverance and passion, persistence and passion, perseverance and passion, persistence and passion. You can persevere through stuff and you've got the passion, something you want.

Speaker 2:

The next question precedes talent in a lot of ways, and so when you look at who makes it in the insurance business, a lot of it is if you will just keep trying and moving toward the outcome that you want and keep working to get better. The outcome that you want and keep working to get better, I mean you'll do it. The challenge becomes if you are entitled or the challenge becomes if you just don't have that kind of drive and want to go get it then, this is a business.

Speaker 2:

So for those guys that have, you're kind of like that, like when you played sports and what's kind of interesting, one of my clients hires a lot of athletes and I've told them I was like man, there's two kinds of athletes. There's a pre-Madonna who is just always easy for them. The problem with them they don't get feedback very well, right, and then you got that middle of the road kind of just had to grind it out. Like grinding it out is what grit is. That's what this podcast is all about, that's what my book's all about. If you got people that got the ability to go grind it out, then you give them the tools, the wedge, you give them differentiation. We run sales meetings that make them think, we do goal setting to give them clarity. Then, man, you can make a lot of money in this business.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. On that same note, how much does the culture of an organization play into, like a salesperson's success versus their maybe their own individual skill set? How does that factor in?

Speaker 2:

Culture. Yeah, so the culture is either performance culture, like Nick Saban had a performance culture, right, he got great talent, but he also had a performance culture in a powerful way. So the culture has a lot to figure it out. Other cultures don't even have rope, they just so nobody ever hangs themselves, they just come in and they do whatever they do, and as long as they're not causing problems, they're fine, right, they're professionals. We let them do what they want to do. So then you've got the other culture that says I really do believe, I've got a powerful way that works, I've got a process that works. I've got a powerful way that works. I've got a process that works, I've got ways we're going to do things and it's proven. So we're looking for people that fit that model. And then when you do and you get into that environment, it takes people up 3x, 4x compared to what they would have done in a more of a neutral sort of culture.

Speaker 1:

Culture is huge, yeah yeah, neutral sort of culture. Culture is huge, yeah, yeah, and I know you've been there. But as you walk through the offices and the halls of IGA, you can see culture. I mean it's in the color palette, it's on the walls. I mean it's interwoven into the DNA of the place and I think that's probably a big part of IGA. Success over the last few years is and this would probably, you know, do a lot of your coaching is. I feel like there's a lot of clarity there as to what's going to work and what's not going to work in that culture like who is going to work and who won't work. You know and I think that's a part of the um pretty robust interview process that IGA has to even become on the team because they work hard to weed out, Very hard to weed out, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I mean just keep tying the things together. So again, what he's using is really, for the most part, what I mapped out in the book Grit.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

And in that book we talk a lot about an evidence-based hiring process. So now let's go back to basketball. Okay, if you were a sophomore in high school, I'm a D1 coach and I'm looking for players. I want to meet you and all that sort of stuff and see what you like, but more than anything, I want to put you on the court, put a basketball in your hand and see, just go around, let me see, let me see how good a hand you got See what your shot's like.

Speaker 2:

Then I'm going to put somebody on you and then I'm going to see how you do. And then I'm going to go two on two, three on three, five on five and then we'll see what your leaders where it says all things I get to see. And the problem with most interview processes there's no evidence, it's just feeling. So when you set up an interview process that's got exercises and things people have to do, now you start to get the evidence, what's going on? And one of the critical things and not all my clients do it and case are all but I want a producer to read the wedge and write me an executive summary. Why A reading? It shows a commitment to getting something done. So okay, so you can get something done. You can follow through. You write the executive summary.

Speaker 2:

If you can't write very well, you're probably not going to be very good in this business, because you articulate yourself on a piece of paper is important. Once you've read it, we've already started the indoctrination process of how we want to sell. Because you've read it. Now I can see I'm going to make you defend certain things and as you have to defend it, can you handle it, and I'm going to put pressure on you. When I put that pressure on you, how do you handle that pressure?

Speaker 2:

Because, you start going after large accounts. It's pressure. So I get to find out so much about a person by starting off with that, one simple step of read this, do an executive summary and then I can see how smart you are. Can you articulate this stuff? Can you synthesize that information to? If you're a young guy and you're single, how would you use this to pick up a girl that already has a boyfriend? If you already have a job, or if you're already married and all that sort of stuff, but you have a previous job, how would you have used this in that previous job? So I want to see that. Can their brain synthesize this information? Yeah, a baseball player would synthesize a swing to a golf swing Right.

Speaker 1:

Right, and that's the sign of intelligence and all that stuff. It makes so much sense. I mean just as a case study of what not to do. I mean I just hired someone recently and I fell right into the trap that you just explained Great resume, great in the interview, said all the right things, got them out on the court fell in love.

Speaker 1:

Oh, this was going to be a game. This was the guy that was going to lead us into the future and got them out on the court. Huge renality. Well, I'm a big basketball guy, so I keep the basketball metaphors coming. I love it, but got on the court and couldn't, couldn't play, couldn't play, couldn't play. And if I would work the process like what you're describing, or process similar, it would have at least given me a better. Now, I'm sure that's you know you can't bat a thousand, but it would at least given me every opportunity. But to.

Speaker 2:

but be careful how you say that you can bat really high, right, you can write really high, and so the so. So basically you got to come back full circle and go. Why am I not asking those tougher questions? Why am I not putting them on the court? Why am I not doing that stuff? What am I afraid of? Yes, Fear, and well, yeah, and then what? What Jillian comes down to is I don't have enough people in my pipeline. What if I? What if I make the guy mad and he doesn't come back? And he was really great. And all those things kick into our mind and then we become weppy.

Speaker 1:

Or even the tyranny of, of just the urgent of man. I'm, I'm, I got to do this, I'm under the gun or whatever, and that's usually my thing is I move so fast that sometimes slowing down to work a process, you know, I need to discipline myself to do that. But to your point though, I've actually lost time moving that fast yeah.

Speaker 2:

Moving fast is a great. Having the ability to move fast is a great ability to have. Having the discipline to look at the truth and slow down is a great ability to have. Having the discipline to look at the truth and slow down is a great character to have and sometimes you have to let go. I know I can, but I need to slow it down and get clear about this and find out can this person do the job?

Speaker 1:

If not, you waste a lot of money. Could you repeat that? Say that line one more time.

Speaker 2:

That was so good, Move fast, a great discipline but the great character to have is yeah, there's really that ability to slow down and look at it for what it really is. Yeah, Gosh, that's that's good.

Speaker 1:

I needed to hear that today Personally, talk a little bit about just leadership. As far as what, what leadership styles or kinds of leadership really helps unlock success for a salesperson long-term? Is there a certain kind that you've seen really works well? What's the key to that?

Speaker 2:

Well, you got to start off with. You really got to care, because if you don't, you're working with just an object rather than a person. So the caring and then out of the caring, then one of the first big things you'll do is you'll come up with a really well-defined outcome. In other words, what does this producer want? Because we know what we want. We know what we want from the producer, but what does the producer want?

Speaker 2:

And without that really clear outcome and then, as you start to get the producer clear on what they want, then, just like what you and I just went through, okay, well, hey, mr Producer, let's work through what are your biggest obstacles or fears, or what are the skills that you feel you need, that you don't have, and let's build a plan of action that we're going to develop you to go become this thing Rather than. Here's a phone book. I just hired you as a sales guy. Hey, read the sales book and I need you to go make money for me.

Speaker 2:

And, frankly, even though nobody would admit that, that's what they do, that's what a lot of people do.

Speaker 1:

I'm not going to keep incriminating myself, but let's just say that I relate deeply to what you just said.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean because, expediency, you want to get on with it, you don't have time, you know what? You just give them a chance to see what happens and anyway. So that's life, right, that's life.

Speaker 1:

Yeah Well, and I will say that even just talking with you, you know, oddly there's, it actually gives, I think, gives people like me hope that there actually is a process, there's, there is a framework we can work to to up our batting average significantly if we'll, if we'll, do it. So it's like it's you know, I have gratitude for for you and your company of like saying, okay, we've, we've kind of cracked the code on how to do this. If you'll trust us, you'll work with us and we'll do it. I mean, iga is a great example. I mean they're they're killing it and they're doing it, so it can be done and it's being done. But uh, you know, just, there's just a lot of hope in this conversation of like, especially if you're struggling in this area, that there is a way to do this to really produce growth and the results you're looking for.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and then Jamie's also become probably my greatest expert as a client on what we'll call the GPI, the grit personality inventory. I mean you and I both, we both have personalities. Break down the personality eight core characteristics. One is drive, one is assertiveness, one is attention to detail, one is how much recognition do I need? You're going down the line, and all those things affect how you go do, how you go about business, how you go about life, how you know what your behaviors are, and so when you've got the right, so, so just like drive.

Speaker 2:

Drive is like remember from top gun, like I feel the need for speed, whatever it was. Yeah, I gotta make something happen. Well, drive, is that I to go make something happen? Well, drive, is that I got to go make something happen? There's a lot of people that interview really well, they're really nice, but they don't have to go make something happen. They'll wait for somebody to cause them to make something happen, or they just want to be a part of the action, but rather than I got to go make something happen. And so when you, when that is missing in a producer, you don't really have a producer, right, it's not a producer.

Speaker 2:

And so anyway he's, he's become very good at that and so that that he uses and most of my clients do for kind of the early screening, because you don't want to waste a lot of time interviewing people that don't have they're not compatible to the sport of being a producer. Yes, why would we waste a lot of people that don't have those compatibilities? Let's go make them account managers, send them off to do something else or put them in the mail room, but they're not compatible to this job. Because I've defined this job, I know what it is.

Speaker 1:

To your point. I've told this story on this podcast before. But I took that test because I was in transition and I've always respected and loved Jamie and I was like man, I'd love to be a part of a great thing and Jamie's like man, I bet you'd be good at sales. And so I took that test and he called me and he said hey, got good news and bad news. Great news is you would be amazing at sales. Bad news is I would never hire you.

Speaker 1:

And I was like what do you mean? He was like you got to carve your own path you won't follow. He's like I got a system I work here and if you work my system, you'd be successful. It showed up on this, this index. You're going to buck the system constantly and it's actually what propelled me to go do what I'm doing now, which is I started my own company and you know. So it's like it was super helpful to me.

Speaker 1:

That kind of feedback was helpful because I may have taken a job and got into it and say, wait a minute, I'd like to do it this way, and Jamie would be like no, I know how I want to do this, I know what works. You got to work the path and so, yeah, I was I. It was super helpful for me and also, on the other side of it, it's really helpful for the person taking the index, because it gave me clarity as to what to not. I mean, jamie wasn't going to hire me anyway, but it gave me clarity that, oh, you're right, like I need to be that entrepreneur carving my own path, figuring out my own way type thing Super super helpful. Path figuring out my own way, type thing, super, super helpful. Well, I'm curious what are some of the traits that you see in, maybe even toxic traits, that you see in underperforming sales organizations? Are there any consistent like trends?

Speaker 2:

and then how do great companies avoid those things, avoid underperformers?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Just just the toxic trait in an underperforming sales organization. Yeah it's a toxic trait. Or even just trends that you see that, hey, this is something that keeps organizations from performing at a high level.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So I'm working with a new prospect right now that they're a high growth firm. They've added like 19 or 20 producers that are unvalidated. A bunch of them are athletes, but new business is really weak, and so you've got to go back and go. Well why? But new business is really weak and so you've got to go back and go. Well, why? Well, like I said earlier, not all athletes are as driven as what you think they are. So just because you're an athlete doesn't mean fill in the blank, doesn't mean you're going to be a great producer. So when I see a lot of firms that are underperformers, it's a function of really two things Leadership that doesn't have a path to say here's how we go get great Again. If you go back and you look at all your sports hero coaches, belichick and Saban are both until Belichick had a girlfriend, but Belichick and Saban are both. They've got a way to do things right, but Bellatrix and Saban are both. It's like you know they've got a way to do things right.

Speaker 2:

There's a lot of leaders that don't believe that there's a way to do things, that there's a lot of different ways to get things done, and so people get confused, they have chaos and there is no path. And so when there's no path, people get lost in the forest and it really slows them down. So that's on leadership and then on the producer. Many times you just got the wrong person sitting in the wrong seat. They just don't have the heart or soul to fight through the ambiguities, the rejection associated with prospecting. Sometimes they just don't have the intelligence to learn what they need to learn, and so then they're always kind of they feel they feel they would never most of the time they would never vocalize it to you unless you had a chance to get them one-on-one and talk about it. But they feel inferior because of lack of knowledge, because either they don't have the intensity to go study and learn it or they don't really have the brainpower to learn it easily.

Speaker 2:

Right, and all roll up. Right, because this you know, learn it easily and all roll up right, because insurance is a great business for two reasons unlimited product and unlimited prospects. I mean they're big, big, multi-trillion dollar insurance companies that they want to write more business, more policies. So you run out of product. It's not like selling wars or submarines. You never run out of product. It's not like selling wars or submarines. You never run out of product.

Speaker 2:

Second, if you draw a big enough circle, you'll never run out of prospects. Therefore, you can make unlimited money. So then you just got to come back to. If I can fit the right person into the right slot man, you can get people to be really successful. Within five years, they're making $300,000, $350,000, sometimes $400,000. Jeez, that's great money.

Speaker 1:

That's great money, especially in that amount of time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and then now they got the next 25 years to go double that or triple that or whatever they want to do.

Speaker 2:

It's incredible Because they had a path and they fit the mold. So I know and let's just be transparent on this part, I mean this podcast, I mean the reason Jamie's doing it is because he wants to attract people. Yes, right, there's so many places you can go get a job, thousands of places. You can go get jobs on Wall Street. My daughter works in New York as a part of the finance industry and so is her boyfriend. So I see that those guys are putting in 12-hour days, big time long days. They make good money, but they really have to work and they will always have to do that. Right. So you got the finance world. You can go start to sell pharmaceuticals. You could go sell technology, but technology generally kind of peaks and dies because they're going to hot. So you've got the finance world. You can go start to sell pharmaceuticals. You could go sell technology, but technology only kind of peaks and dies because they're going to hot. Product and goes. Pharmaceutical kind of peaks and dies. Goes and go Insurance.

Speaker 2:

If you can get in this, I don't think, honestly, there's a better business in the world if you fit the mold Right right. Honestly, there's a better business in the world if you fit the mold right, right. So that's. You know. All the people out there that are watching this that are thinking about should I get into an insurance business? And I should consider working with jamie. If you fit the mold, you ought to get in. That's awesome.

Speaker 1:

I love that. I I'm I'm curious because you're. I love what you're saying about the iga culture. One thing I've noticed is when the right fit happens at IGA, it's a place where salespeople aren't just producing, but they're thriving and they're sticking around too, or even coming back. They'll go and try something and they'll come back. How does a company like IGA create a place like that?

Speaker 2:

I don't know because, honestly, I personally am not very good at that. Right, everybody's got their own skills, right?

Speaker 1:

Jamie is.

Speaker 2:

Jamie is a generous guy that cares, and because he does, he's he's going to create an environment. He's going to give people the tools he's going to he's going tools. He's going to bring the thunder when he's bringing the thunder. He's going to bring a lot of love when he's bringing the love.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

That kind of stuff. When I look at some of the strongest leaders that I've got to work with I think about a guy named Rusty, I think about a guy named Keith, I think about a guy named Mike I mean they were great people, people if you will People love to work for them and perform for them.

Speaker 2:

Jamie's that same way, and so I think so much of great culture is because of a leader that really cares a lot and then they're going to show that they care and they appreciate when people do well and they're going to give the resources and environment to make it happen. That's a great culture. Contrast that to my friend A lot of agencies that man, this is just a job. We show up every day, just do your job. There's no energy, there's no fight, there's nobody we're trying to dominate. It's just a job. You're professional, do your job. So guys like Jamie have a gift.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I agree. What advice would you give to, maybe, a high potential salesperson who might be choosing between I don't want to say it right but one of the big name companies out there, or like a values-driven company like IGA, because you've been working specifically with us for a while? What are some of the advice that you would give to them?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean in most situations, not all. But you start to go the big company route. I mean their primary driver is EBITDA. We've got to drive EBITDA, ebitda, ebitda, ebitda, right. So then resources start to kind of evaporate. You become a number. If you're not careful, you can do well. Obviously you can do well because there's a lot of people doing well.

Speaker 2:

Right well, obviously you can do well, because there's a lot of people doing well right. Um, but um it. It has so much to do with what kind of coach you want to play for, and in those cases it's going to be more of a. We're going to recruit you. You're lucky to be at our university. It's a big university. Use the resources. Uh, if he needs some help, holler at me, but if not, just go to work and do your job. Versus a Jamie thing is like small university, small program, come in here. We're all family. It's like Coach K was always talking about the brotherhood. You talk about brotherhood, brotherhood. They look at each other, right. It's just a different vibe. So I would just say to somebody that's considering both don't get starry-eyed if somebody swings a big check at you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Ask a lot of tough questions and start to imagine what your future will be like three, five, seven and 10 years down the road. And start to imagine what your future will be like three, five, seven and 10 years down the road and that's really what you want to buy into, because you are unlike a lot of jobs. You get a salary and a little bonus. Over here you need to control your income. Yes, you get to be the guy or the gal, and so pick wisely.

Speaker 1:

That's great advice. That's great advice, randy. This has been awesome, so helpful, so incredible. Thank you for the work you do, not just with IGA but around the world, helping businesses grow and thrive and succeed. One just last question, if you could and this is an impossible question, but if you were to boil down your message to every leader, including myself we're trying to build a high performing sales culture. If you just had your one parting thought from your 33 years of doing this, what would it be?

Speaker 2:

Potential has to be developed in almost every case. Almost every case. So when you see potential in somebody, also be thinking about okay, how do I go develop this and move that, help them perform? Everybody wants to be a performer. They can't admit they want to be a performer. Sometimes you got fears, you got things going on, but everybody wants to do well, yeah, wants to do well.

Speaker 2:

So if I saw the leaders, I go go figure out. I mean, be curious enough to ask enough questions. Try to get inside that person's head to figure out what is that motivating factor? In other words, is it they want to prove their dad wrong or they want to make their dad proud? Is it that their spouse and their children, what they want to provide for them that they never got? Or because what they got from their parents, what they want to provide for them that they never got, or because what they got from their parents, they want to do that for the kids too. In other words, what is it that they want? What is it that's driving them? And then reverse, engineer it back to now. Help them figure out a path and map out the path, making a visual thing here's what has to happen. And then show them enough energy to keep them focused, focused on that, and you'll do really well.